Showing posts with label war crimes. Show all posts
Showing posts with label war crimes. Show all posts

October 31, 2010

Wolfowitz Directive Gave Legal Cover to Detainee Experimentation Program.

by Jason Leopold and Jeffrey Kaye

photo
(Illustration: Lance Page / t r u t h o u t)

Truthout Editor's Note: When President George W. Bush authorized waterboarding and other forms of torture on “war on terror” detainees, the patterns of abusive treatment and the gauging of physiological responses always had an experimental feel, as if the interrogators were testing how best to break a person’s resistance.

Now, after a seven-month investigation, Jason Leopold and Jeffrey Kaye report that some technical revisions in US government policies on human experimentation created apparent loopholes that allowed the detainees to be used as human guinea pigs for studies in behaviorial modification.

In 2002, as the Bush administration was turning to torture and other brutal techniques for interrogating "war on terror" detainees, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz loosened rules against human experimentation, an apparent recognition of legal problems regarding the novel strategies for extracting and evaluating information from the prisoners.

Wolfowitz issued a little-known directive on March 25, 2002, about a month after President George W. Bush stripped the detainees of traditional prisoner-of-war protections under the Geneva Conventions. Bush labeled them "unlawful enemy combatants" and authorized the CIA and the Department of Defense (DoD) to undertake brutal interrogations.

Despite its title - "Protection of Human Subjects and Adherence to Ethical Standards in DoD-Supported Research" - the Wolfowitz directive weakened protections that had been in place for decades by limiting the safeguards to "prisoners of war."

"We're dealing with a special breed of person here," Wolfowitz said about the war on terror detainees only four days before signing the new directive.

One former Pentagon official, who worked closely with the agency's ex-general counsel William Haynes, said the Wolfowitz directive provided legal cover for a top-secret Special Access Program at the Guantanamo Bay prison, which experimented on ways to glean information from unwilling subjects and to achieve "deception detection."

"A dozen [high-value detainees] were subjected to interrogation methods in order to evaluate their reaction to those methods and the subsequent levels of stress that would result," said the official.

A July 16, 2004 Army Criminal Investigation Division (CID) report obtained by Truthout shows that between April and July 2003, a "physiological warfare specialist" atached to the military's Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape (SERE) program was present at Guantanamo. The CID report says the instructor was assigned to a top-secret Special Access Program.

In his book "The Terror Presidency," Jack Goldsmith, the former head of the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel, said Wolfowitz was “put in charge of questions regarding detainees” at Guantanamo. Goldsmith also previously worked with Haynes at the Pentagon.

It has been known since 2009, when President Barack Obama declassified some of the Bush administration's legal memoranda regarding the interrogation program, that there were experimental elements to the brutal treatment of detainees, including the sequencing and duration of the torture and other harsh tactics.

However, the Wolfowitz directive also suggests that the Bush administration was concerned about whether its actions might violate Geneva Conventions rules that were put in place after World War II when grisly Nazi human experimentation was discovered. Those legal restrictions were expanded in the 1970s after revelations about the CIA testing drugs on unsuspecting human subjects and conducting other mind-control experiments.

For its part, the DoD insists that it "has never condoned nor authorized the use of human research testing on any detainee in our custody," according to spokeswoman Wendy Snyder.

However, from the start of the war on terror, the Bush administration employed nontraditional methods for designing interrogation protocols, including the reverse engineering of training given to American troops trapped behind enemy lines, called the SERE techniques. For instance, the controlled-drowning technique of waterboarding was lifted from SERE manuals.

Shielding Rumsfeld

Retired US Air Force Capt. Michael Shawn Kearns, a former SERE intelligence officer, said the Wolfowitz directive appears to be a clear attempt to shield then-Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld from the legal consequences of "any dubious research practices associated with the interrogation program."

Scott Horton, a human rights attorney and constitutional expert, noted Wolfowitz's specific reference to "prisoners of war" as protected under the directive, as opposed to referring more generally to detainees or people under the government's control.

"At the time that Wolfowitz was issuing this directive, the Bush administration was taking the adamant position that prisoners taken in the' war on terror' were not 'prisoners of war' under the Geneva Conventions and were not entitled to any of the protections of the Geneva Conventions.

"Indeed, it called those protections 'privileges' that were available only to 'lawful combatants.' So the statement [in the directive] that 'prisoners of war' cannot be subjects of human experimentation ... raises some concerns - why was the more restrictive term 'prisoners of war' used instead of 'prisoners' for instance."

The Wolfowitz directive also changed other rules regarding waivers of informed consent. After the scandals over the CIA's MKULTRA program and the Tuskegee experiments on African-Americans suffering from syphilis, Congress passed legislation known as the Common Rule to provide protections to human research subjects.

The Common Rule "requires a review of proposed research by an Institutional Review Board (IRB), the informed consent of research subjects, and institutional assurances of compliance with the regulations."

Individuals who lack the capacity to provide "informed consent" must have an IRB determine if they would benefit from the proposed research. In certain cases, that decision could also be made by the subject's "legal representative."

However, according to the Wolfowitz directive, waivers of informed consent could be granted by the heads of DoD divisions.

Professor Alexander M. Capron, who oversees human rights and health law at the World Health Organization, said the delegation of the power to waive informed consent procedures to Pentagon officials is "controversial both because it involves a waiver of the normal requirements and because the grounds for that waiver are so open-ended."

The Wolfowitz directive also changes language that had required DoD researchers to strictly adhere to the Nuremberg Directives for Human Experimentation and other precedents when conducting human subject research.

The Nuremberg Code, which was a response to the Nazi atrocities, made "the voluntary consent of the human subject ... absolutely essential." However, the Wolfowitz directive softened a requirement of strict compliance to this code, instructing researchers simply to be "familiar" with its contents.

"Why are DoD-funded investigators just required to be 'familiar' with the Nuremberg Code rather than required to comply with them?" asked Stephen Soldz, director of the Center for Research, Evaluation and Program Development at Boston Graduate School of Psychoanalysis.

Soldz also wondered why "enforcement was moved from the Army Surgeon General or someone else in the medical chain of command to the Director of Defense Research and Engineering" and why "this directive changed at this time, as the 'war on terror' was getting going."

Soldz is co-author of a report published in June by the international doctors' organization Physicians for Human Rights (PHR), which found that high-value detainees who were subjected to brutal torture techniques by the CIA were used as "guinea pigs" to gauge the effectiveness of the various "enhanced interrogation" methods. PHR told Truthout it first examined the Wolfowitz directive and changes Congress made to 10 USC 980, the law that governs how the Defense Department spends federal funds on human experimentation, in 2008 while preparing its report, but did not cite either because the group could not explain its significance.

Treating Soldiers

The original impetus for the changes seems to have related more to the use of experimental therapies on US soldiers facing potential biological and other dangers in war zones.

The House Armed Services Committee proposed amending 10 USC 980 prior to the 9/11 attacks. But the Bush administration pressed for the changes after 9/11 as the United States was preparing to invade Afghanistan and new medical products might be needed for soldiers on the battlefield without their consent, said two former officials from the Defense Intelligence Agency.

Yet, there were concerns about the changes even among Bush administration officials. In a September 24, 2001, memo to lawmakers, Bush's Office of Management and Budget (OMB) said the "administration is concerned with the provision allowing research to be conducted on human subjects without their informed consent in order to advance the development of a medical product necessary to the armed forces."

The OMB memo said the Bush administration understood that the DoD had a "legitimate need" for "waiver authority for emergency research," but "the provision as drafted may jeopardize existing protections for human subjects in research, and must be significantly narrowed."

However, the broader language moved forward, as did planning for the new war on terror interrogation procedures.

In December 2001, Pentagon general counsel Haynes and other agency officials contacted the Joint Personnel Recovery Agency (JPRA), which runs SERE schools for teaching US soldiers to resist interrogation and torture if captured by an outlaw regime. The officials wanted a list of interrogation techniques that could be used for detainee "exploitation," according to a report released last year by the Senate Armed Services Committee.

These techniques, as they were later implemented by the CIA and the Pentagon, were widely discussed as "experimental" in nature.

Back in Congress, the concerns from the OMB about loose terminology were brushed aside and the law was amended to give the DoD greater leeway regarding experimentation on human subjects.

A paragraph to the law, which had not been changed since it was first enacted in 1972, was added authorizing the defense secretary to waive "informed consent" for human subject research and experimentation. It was included in the 2002 Defense Authorization Act passed by Congress in December 2001. The Wolfowitz directive implemented the legislative changes Congress made to 10 USC 980 when it was issued three months later.

The changes to the "informed consent" section of the law were in direct contradiction to presidential and DoD memoranda issued in the 1990s that prohibited such waivers related to classified research. A memo signed in 1999 by Secretary of Defense William Cohen called for the prohibitions on "informed consent" waivers to be added to the Common Rule regulations covering DoD research, but DoD never implemented it.

Congressional Assistance

As planning for the highly classified Special Access Program began to take shape, most officials in Congress appear to have averted their eyes, with some even lending a hand.

The ex-DIA officials said the Pentagon briefed top lawmakers on the Senate Defense Appropriations Committee in November and December 2001, including the panel's chairman Sen. Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii) and his chief of staff Patrick DeLeon, about experimentation and research involving detainee interrogations that centered on "deception detection."

To get a Special Access Program like this off the ground, the Pentagon needed DeLeon's help, given his long-standing ties to the American Psychological Association (APA), where he served as president in 2000, the sources said.

According to former APA official Bryant Welch, DeLeon's role proved crucial.

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"For significant periods of time DeLeon has literally directed APA staff on federal policy matters and has dominated the APA governance on political matters," Welch wrote. "For over twenty-five years, relationships between the APA and the Department of Defense (DOD) have been strongly encouraged and closely coordinated by DeLeon....

"When the military needed a mental health professional to help implement its interrogation procedures, and the other professions subsequently refused to comply, the military had a friend in Senator Inouye's office, one that could reap the political dividends of seeds sown by DeLeon over many years."

John Bray, a spokesman for Inuoye, said in late August he would look into questions posed by Truthout about the Wolfowitz directive and the meetings involving DeLeon and Inuoye. But Bray never responded nor did he return follow-up phone calls and emails. DeLeon did not return messages left with his assistant.

Legal Word Games

Meanwhile, in January 2002, President Bush was receiving memos from then-Justice Department attorneys Jay Bybee and John Yoo as well as from Defense Secretary Rumsfeld and Bush's White House counsel Alberto Gonzales, advising Bush to deny members of al-Qaeda and the Taliban prisoner-of-war status under the Geneva Conventions.

Also, about a month before the Wolfowitz directive was issued, the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) asked Joint Forces Command if they could get a "crash course" on interrogation for the next interrogation team headed out to Guantanamo, according to the Armed Services Committee's report. That request was sent to Brig. Gen. Thomas Moore and was approved.

Bruce Jessen, the chief psychologist of the SERE program, and Joseph Witsch, a JPRA instructor, led the instructional seminar held in early March 2002.

The seminar included a discussion of al-Qaeda's presumed methods of resisting interrogation and recommended specific methods interrogators should use to defeat al-Qaeda's resistance. According to the Armed Services Committee report, the presentation provided instructions on how interrogations should be conducted and on how to manage the "long term exploitation" of detainees.

There was a slide show, focusing on four primary methods of treatment: "isolation and degradation," "sensory deprivation," "physiological pressures" and "psychological pressures."

According to Jessen and Witsch's instructor's guide, isolation was the "main building block of the exploitation process," giving the captor "total control" over the prisoner's "inputs." Examples were provided on how to implement "degradation," by taking away a prisoner's personal dignity. Methods of sensory deprivation were also discussed as part of the training.

Jessen and Witsch denied that "physical pressures," which later found their way into the CIA's "enhanced interrogation" program, were taught at the March meeting.

However, Jessen, along with Christopher Wirts, chief of JPRA's Operational Support Office, wrote a memo for Southern Command's Directorate of Operations (J3), entitled "Prisoner Handling Recommendations," which urged Guantanamo authorities to take punishment beyond "base line rules."

So, by late March 2002, the pieces were in place for a strategy of behavior modification designed to break down the will of the detainees and extract information from them. Still, to make the procedures "legal," some reinterpretations of existing laws and regulation were needed.

For instance, attorneys Bybee and Yoo would narrow the definition of "torture" to circumvent laws prohibiting the brutal interrogation of detainees.

"Vulnerable" Individuals

In his directive, Wolfowitz also made subtle, but significant, word changes. While retaining the blanket prohibition against experimenting on prisoners of war, Wolfowitz softened the language for other types of prisoners, using a version of rules about "vulnerable" classes of individuals taken from regulations meant for civilian research by the Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS).

This research and experimentation examined physiological markers of stress, such as cortisol, and involved psychologists under contract to the CIA and the military who were experts in the field, the ex-DIA officials said.

One study, called "The War Fighter's Stress Response," was conducted between 2002 and 2003 and examined physiological measurements of mock torture subjects drawn from the SERE program and other high-stress military personnel, such as Special Forces Combat Divers.

Researchers measured cortisol and other hormone levels via salivary swabbing and blood samples, a process that also was reportedly done to war on terror detainees.

Three weeks after the Wolfowitz directive was signed, SERE psychologist Jessen produced a Draft Exploitation Plan for use at Guantanamo. According to the Armed Services Committee's report, JPRA was offering its services for "oversight, training, analysis, research, and [tactics, techniques, and procedures] development" to Joint Forces Command Deputy Commander Lt. Gen. Robert Wagner. (Emphasis added.)

There were other indications that research was an important component of JPRA services to the DoD and CIA interrogation programs. When three JPRA personnel were sent to a Special Mission Unit associated with Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) in August 2003 for what was believed to be special training in interrogation, one of the three was JPRA's manager for research and development.

Three former top military officials interviewed by the Armed Services Committee have described Guantanamo as a "battle lab."

According to Col. Britt Mallow, the commander of the Criminal Investigative Task Force (CITF), he was uncomfortable when Guantanamo officials Maj. Gen. Mike Dunleavy and Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller used the term "battle lab," meaning "that interrogations and other procedures there were to some degree experimental, and their lessons would benefit DoD in other places."

CITF's deputy commander told the Senate investigators, "there were many risks associated with this concept ... and the perception that detainees were used for some 'experimentation' of new unproven techniques had negative connotations."

In May 2005, a former military officer who attended a SERE training facility sent an email to Middle East scholar Juan Cole stating that "Gitmo must be being used as a 'laboratory' for all these psychological techniques by the [counter-intelligence] guys."

The Al-Qahtani Experiment

One of the high-value detainees imprisoned at Guantanamo who appears to have been a victim of human experimentation was Mohammed al-Qahtani, who was captured in January 2002.

A sworn statement filed by Lt. Gen. Randall M. Schmidt, al-Qahtani's attorney, said Secretary Rumsfeld was "personally involved" in the interrogation of al-Qahtani and spoke "weekly" with Major General Miller, commander at Guantanamo, about the status of the interrogations between late 2002 and early 2003.

The treatment of al-Qahtani was cataloged in an 84-page "torture log" that was leaked in 2006. The torture log shows that, beginning in November 2002 and continuing well into January 2003, al-Qahtani was subjected to sleep deprivation, interrogated in 20-hour stretches, poked with IVs and left to urinate on himself.

Gitanjali S. Gutierrez, an attorney with the Center for Constitutional Rights who represents al-Qahtani, had said in a sworn declaration that her client, was subjected to months of torture based on verbal and written authorizations from Rumsfeld.

"At Guantánamo, Mr. al-Qahtani was subjected to a regime of aggressive interrogation techniques, known as the 'First Special Interrogation Plan,'" Gutierrez said. "These methods included, but were not limited to, 48 days of severe sleep deprivation and 20-hour interrogations, forced nudity, sexual humiliation, religious humiliation, physical force, prolonged stress positions and prolonged sensory over-stimulation, and threats with military dogs."

In addition, the Senate Armed Services Committee report said al-Qahtani's treatment was viewed as a potential model for other interrogations.

In his book, "Oath Betrayed," Dr. Steven Miles wrote that the meticulously recorded logs of al-Qahtani's interrogation and torture focus "on the emotions and interactions of the prisoner, rather than on the questions that were asked and the information that was obtained."

The uncertainty surrounding these experimental techniques resulted in the presence of medical personnel on site, and frequent and consistent medical checks of the detainee. The results of the monitoring, which likely included vital signs and other stress markers, would also become data that could be analyzed to understand how the new interrogation techniques worked.

In January 2004, the Director of Defense Research and Engineering (DDR&E) initiated a DoD-wide review of human subjects protection policies. A Navy slide presentation at DoD Training Day on November 14, 2006, hinted strongly at the serious issues behind the entire review.

The Navy presentation framed the problem in the light of the history of US governmental "non-compliance" with human subjects research protections, including "US Government Mind Control Experiments - LSD, MKULTRA, MKDELTA (1950-1970s)"; a 90-day national "stand down" in 2003 for all human subject research and development activities "ordered in response to the death of subjects"; as well as use of "unqualified researchers."

The Training Day presentation said the review found the Navy "not in full compliance with Federal policies on human subjects protection." Furthermore, DDR&E found the Navy had "no single point of accountability for human subject protections."

DoD refused to respond to questions regarding the 2004 review. Maj. Gen. Ronald Sega, who at the time was the DDR&E, did not return calls for comment.

Ongoing Research

Meanwhile, the end of the Bush administration has not resulted in a total abandonment of the research regarding interrogation program.

Last March, Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair, who recently resigned, disclosed that the Obama administration's High-Value Detainee Interrogation Group (HIG), planned on conducting "scientific research" to determine "if there are better ways to get information from people that are consistent with our values."

"It is going to do scientific research on that long-neglected area," Blair said during testimony before the House Intelligence Committee. He did not provide additional details as to what the "scientific research" entailed.

As for the Wolfowitz directive, Pentagon spokeswoman Snyder said it did not open the door to human experimentation on war on terror detainees.

"There is no detainee policy, directive or instruction - or exceptions to such - that would permit performing human research testing on DoD detainees," Snyder said. "Moreover, none of the numerous investigations into allegations of misconduct by interrogators or the guard force found any evidence of such activities."

Snyder added that DoD is in the process of updating the Wolfowitz directive and it will be "completed for review next year."


Global Research Articles by Jason Leopold

Global Research Articles by Jeffrey Kaye

July 09, 2008

Scott Horton in New Republic on WAR CRIMES

Travel Advisory

By Scott Horton

Yesterday, a group of medical professionals, Physicians for Human Rights, released a comprehensive review of medical evidence concerning the treatment of detainees. The group found comprehensive evidence of torture and other abuse that resulted in long-term physical and psychological damage, thus satisfying even the most stringent criminal-law definition of torture. Which raises the question of war crimes. Major General Antonio Taguba completed the single most thorough and impressive of the half-dozen studies the Pentagon has commissioned into detainee abuse. “There is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes,” Taguba says. “The only question is whether those who ordered torture will be held to account.”

Could officials of the Bush Administration face war crimes charges? In The New Republic, I examine that question and note that, far from this being an outlandish suggestion, criminal cases are in fact being prepared. Which is why the Bush Administration torture-team members need to think twice before boarding an airplane that will take them beyond the sheltering confines of the United States.

-- 000 ---

The New Republic
Travel Advisory by The U.S. isn't likely to try Bush administration officials for war crimes--but it's likely that a European country will.

Post Date Thursday, June 19, 2008

Tuesday's Senate Armed Services Committee hearing provided the latest evidence that top Bush administration officials directed the use of torture techniques on detained suspected terrorists. Three panels of witnesses traced the use of highly coercive techniques back to the high echelons of the administration. The day ended with the grilling of William J. Haynes II, the former general counsel of the Department of Defense and a protégé of Cheney's chief of staff David Addington, who is now widely viewed as the "station master" of the administration's torture policy. And in April, ABC News reported that officials including Dick Cheney, Colin Powell, and Donald Rumsfeld had held a series of meetings to discuss the use of specific torture techniques on detained suspect terrorists. The ABC report amplified earlier stories which said the decision to destroy videotapes of interrogations of suspects in CIA captivity involved four senior White House lawyers and other senior figures. At the same time, Philippe Sands's new book The Torture Team reveals the falsity of White House claims that the push to introduce torture techniques came from interrogators in the field. Sands demonstrates that the decision to use techniques like waterboarding came from the top, and tracks the elaborate scheme to make it appear that the practices began with a request from Guantánamo.

These disclosures and others have put the issue of war crimes on the front burner. Major General Antonio Taguba just released this statement in the forward to a report just out by Physicians for Human Rights: "There is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes," Taguba says. "The only question is whether those who ordered torture will be held to account." In a House Judiciary hearing on June 5 looking into the rendition of Canadian software engineer Maher Arar, for instance, members pressed to know if sufficient evidence had been presented to warrant a criminal investigation into the conduct of administration officials; all three witnesses (including the author) answered affirmatively. In other hearings, witnesses have treaded lightly and experienced frequent failures of recollection, perhaps driven by a concern over self-incrimination. And, indeed, in what may be a sign of things to come, 26 American civil servants are being tried in absentia by an Italian court in Milan for their involvement in the rendition of a radical Muslim cleric to Egypt. So, is it really feasible for Bush administration officials to be tried for war crimes?


For most Americans, the words "war crimes" invoke Nuremberg and shrill Vietnam War-era demonstrators. But, really, there's hardly a war without war crimes. Criminal transgressions occur in every conflict and are committed by all parties to the conflict. From the American perspective, a series of provisions in the Uniform Code of Military Justice cover war crimes. But there is also a propagandistic element to the phrase. Countries may charge their own soldiers with assault, murder, and the rest, but "war crimes" are almost always committed by the enemy.

Ever since the first comprehensive codification of the laws of war was issued by Abraham Lincoln during the Civil War, the accountability of senior commanders and policymakers has been a prickly issue. What to do when the actors committing war crimes are implementing orders or policies set by the political leadership? Since a soldier was expected to follow orders almost unthinkingly, it seemed unfair to try him for the crime. On the other hand, punishing the political leaders raises the specter of "victor's justice" or political retribution, potentially complicating the major objective of the law of war, namely the return to peace.

After a couple of false starts at the end of the Civil War and World War I, the idea of prosecuting prominent policymakers as war criminals was launched after World War II, when the historic tribunals convened in Nuremberg and Tokyo. Significantly, one of those cases involved lawyers whose crimes included the preparation of legal memoranda explaining how the leadership could dispense with the troublesome requirements of the Geneva and Hague Conventions in dealing with detainees. The Nuremberg proceedings inspired the special purpose tribunals created for Cambodia, Yugoslavia, and Rwanda, among others, and laid the groundwork for the International Criminal Court.

But the questions hanging over efforts to enforce the law of war with respect to political leaders remain. Only extremely unusual circumstances will lead a country to try one of its own leaders for war crimes. Curiously, the Bush administration is responsible for the most prominent recent case: the prosecution, before a U.S.-financed and -advised special court in Baghdad, of Saddam Hussein and a number of his senior lieutenants.

A number of members of Congress and organizations such as the American Bar Association have called for the creation of a 9/11-style commission with special investigatory powers to get to the bottom of the Bush administration's treatment of persons in detention. The law of war gives a combatant a great deal of latitude in conducting warfare, but it works hard to protect those who have been removed from combat. These persons are entitled to differing levels of protection depending upon their status, but as the Supreme Court reminded us in its decision in Hamdan, even those entitled to no POW protections have the benefit of basic protections against torture and physical abuse.

The Supreme Court decision in Hamdan reflects the consensus view in the legal community that the Bush administration's policies on detainee treatment crossed the line. That view is widely shared even by career lawyers inside the administration, driving such actions as the open revolt against these policies among uniformed military lawyers. The "war crimes" issue revolves around detainee treatment questions, and especially interrogation techniques. And for the experts, the dilemma is a severe one: if the United States does not honor the prohibition against torture and official cruelty, can anyone be expected to?

The U.S. stance has consequences for U.S. personnel in future conflicts. For instance, because of the U.S. position holding open the prospect of waterboarding detainees, both Attorney General Michael Mukasey and State Department Legal Advisor John Bellinger had difficulty saying it would be unlawful for a foreign power to waterboard an American combatant seized out of uniform in a future conflict. Is the administration jeopardizing the safety of future American service personnel in order to protect political figures from accountability? Many see it that way, especially retired military leaders.

So, yes, there are ample theoretical grounds for a war-crimes prosecution. But the action requires political will, which makes it quite unlikely to happen in the United States. First, the Bush administration has, under the legal stewardship of Addington, Alberto Gonzales, and John Ashcroft, taken a number of clever steps designed to make it difficult for any future prosecutor to charge them for war crimes. In fact, the administration's legal architects recognized from the outset that their dismissive attitude toward the law of war was not widely shared. Some of the earliest legal policy documents crafted by the administration were focused on avoiding or obstructing just such action by future prosecutors. The entire controversy surrounding the Office of Legal Counsel and the Jay Bybee-John Yoo opinions turns on just this point.

Second, leading figures in the Bush administration will loudly decry any effort to enforce the law of war against policymakers as an act of partisan political retribution. Still, it is quite possible that the key administration figures will have their records scoured very closely. Did they engage in acts that constitute a criminal violation of the public trust? Did they lie to Congress as it attempted to probe the detainee abuse issue?

But the focus of prosecutorial efforts will most likely be beyond America's frontiers. War crimes are subject to a principle of universal jurisdiction--that is, they may be enforced by any nation. Moreover, when one nation takes legal steps to create immunity for its political leaders, one widely recognized principle of international law holds that other nations should then take action. So the Bush administration's efforts to immunize its own may work in the U.S., but they will have a boomerang effect, creating criminal jurisdiction in other countries.

Is it likely that prosecutions will be brought overseas? Yes. It is reasonably likely. Sands's book contains an interview with an investigating magistrate in a European nation, which he describes as a NATO nation with a solidly pro-American orientation which supported U.S. engagement in Iraq with its own soldiers. The magistrate makes clear that he is already assembling a case, and is focused on American policymakers. I read these remarks and they seemed very familiar to me. In the past two years, I have spoken with two investigating magistrates in two different European nations, both pro-Iraq war NATO allies. Both were assembling war crimes charges against a small group of Bush administration officials. "You can rest assured that no charges will be brought before January 20, 2009," one told me. And after that? "It depends. We don't expect extradition. But if one of the targets lands on our territory or on the territory of one of our cooperating jurisdictions, then we'll be prepared to act."

Viewed in this light, the Bush Administration figures involved in the formation of torture policy face no immediate threat of prosecution for war crimes. But Colin Powell's chief of staff, Colonel Larry Wilkerson, nails it: "Haynes, Feith, Yoo, Bybee, Gonzales and--at the apex--Addington, should never travel outside the U.S., except perhaps to Saudi Arabia and Israel. They broke the law; they violated their professional ethical code. In the future, some government may build the case necessary to prosecute them in a foreign court, or in an international court." Augusto Pinochet made a trip to London, and his life was never the same afterwards.

The Bush administration officials who pushed torture will need to be careful about their travel plans.

New York attorney Scott Horton teaches at Columbia Law School.

TNR TALKBACK [66 comments]

"The Bush administration officials who pushed torture?" How about the ones who pushed the freaking invasion of Iraq-is that not Nuremburg level? But the prospects of a trial are slim-Kissinger is still walking around free. Still it's fun to think of somebody throwing a bag over Wolfowitz's head(Eichman-style)and spiriting him, say, out of a World Bank men's room to be extraordinarily-renditioned to the Hague.

lesserliz

Doug Feith in an Italian jail? Put him in Sicily, in a cell with a Sicilian mafioso. How sweet would that be!
Dave Blum

The perpetrators and enablers of the extreme measures employed by the Bush administration in their war on terror knew exactly what they were doing and deserve to be put on trial. Based upon the information available they did in all likelihood commit war crimes for which they should be imprisoned. The damage done by these individuals to our status as a nation is reprehensible. We have lost tremendous moral stature and at the same time put our soldiers at greater risk in the future due to the actions of these rogues. I only wish that we as a nation had the courage and political will to put these people on trial ourselves rather than having them only restrained to travel within the US for the remainder of their lives.

Posted by rbrown207

The perpetrators and enablers of the extreme measures employed by the Bush administration in their war on terror knew exactly what they were doing and deserve to be put on trial. Based upon the information available they did in all likelihood commit war crimes for which they should be imprisoned. The damage done by these individuals to our status as a nation is reprehensible. We have lost tremendous moral stature and at the same time put our soldiers at greater risk in the future due to the actions of these rogues. I only wish that we as a nation had the courage and political will to put these people on trial ourselves rather than having them only restrained to travel within the US for the remainder of their lives.

| Posted by Bart DePalma

Daydreams and fantasies. A rogue EU magistrate exercising "universal jurisdiction" to enforce treaties arresting US citizens for "war crimes" which the United States does not recognize would be an act of war against the United States on par with the Iranians seizing our diplomatic personnel for crimes against their revolution. In the unlikely event that the EU nation involved did not end the magistrate's charade immediately, there is always the Delta Force option.

| Posted by get a grip

Are you kidding me? I love how our people will be tried for war crimes, but no one at Gitmo will be? They will get rights provided to our citizens when they are not citizens themselves? It was proven when some detainees were released that they turned around and went about their business of plotting against us. You guys are sick and may God have mercy on your souls for turning against our country.

| Posted by Arch Stanton

"But, really, there's hardly a war without war crimes." Now what judiciary would accept that chickenshit rationalization?

| Posted by Jack Kalpakian

I do not think that it would be very wise for any state to try that. Chile, under a leftist government, nearly bankrupted the British warship industry by cancelling the naval contracts it awarded the UK because of Blair's decision to put Pinochet under house arrest. I think even an Obama administration would do the same. Also remember, there is a simple solution to all this -- do not leave the US. Have anyone interested come over here instead.

| Posted by Van Hook Stratton

This is fantasy. The only reason "war crimes" even entered our lexicon is because they were "perpetrated" by the Allies against Germany and Japan. Warfare and its attendant violence are morally neutral- it's in the service of what cause that has to be examined and the US is fully justified in both Iraq and Afghanistan with its judicious and intelligent application of force against an insurgency- the very kind of enemy who makes it difficult to fight a "good" or "clean" war. I don't quite fully understand the overreliance on legalese in warfare. International law is, at best, theoretical due to there being no enforcement mechanisms. In fact, the legal precepts found therein are typically only applied when the US puts some iron in the glove. It therefore follows, with a wink and a nod, that when the US decides it needs to go to war- they get their war and you can "legalize" it after the fact.

| Posted by Jose J Clavell

This article is pure BS and daydreams in the part of the author, who seems to be unaware perhaps that the US have in place what is tantamount to an open declaration of war legislation against anyone that try to push such crap upon our citizens. One of the best remnants of the Clinton administration and that unlike Europe, we have the military power to enforce it. However, I find interesting that unable to find a jury or court system in this country that will take "the proper measures" to bring the so called "war criminals" to justice. Our Tranzi friend hopes for someone else to take the burden thus proving the complete immorality of his argument.

| Posted by JWL2672

You wanna talk about freaking war crimes? How about the SOBs that murdered 3800 Americans going to work? How about the ones right now blowing up market shoppers in Iraq? How about the ones that behead journalists? How about prosecuting Mugabe for killing the wife of an opponent and for not stepping down? This is pretty fucking pathetic right here - these thumb twiddling "professors" go after the easy game cause they know deep down that they're safe from being tossed into the gulag by Bush. Why don't you do something really productive and go after the imams who put fatwas on killing infidels??? Cause that's actually dangerous and might require real courage. As far as I'm concerned, if you wage war in a manner acceptable to the Hague, then you deserve treatment as a prisoner of war (mind you, you still don't get treatment as an American citizen - that's retarded). However, if you blow up innocents and go after women and children, your ass is mine.

| Posted by secular humanist

"You guys are sick and may God have mercy on your souls for turning against our country." I love how the conjunction separates two statements which are completely at odds with one another. Also, our country turned on us, "Get a Grip".

| Posted by Jeffrey S. Frawley

We must always bear in mind that indefinite imprisonment and torture of innocent people is a highly effective means of creating new warriors against the United States. If, say, France scooped me off the streets of the US and held me in a prison in Zimbabwe for a few years, it would have a new enemy if I were ever released - or if I were ever to find one of my captors (or his countrymen) under my power. "They hate and oppose use!" is an inevitable result of indefinite, inhumane imprisonment of foreign nationals in our own gulags.

| Posted by dhauck

HA!HA!HA!...giggle...(snort!) Oh...excuse me, but that article really got me going. Regardless of actual guilt, you really think Belgium or Italy is going to imprison an ex-POTUS for war crimes? Or VP? Or even Attorney-freakin'-General? I'd like to see that, I really would. I doubt even President Obama would stand for that. At MOST, they would be given a quick, sham trial for the political benefit of some populist local party and "extradited" to the U.S.

| Posted by ernieson

It is disturbing that the persons in question are still free and profitting from appearances and book deals while the victims of their policies lie in graves, are permanently impaired, homeless and hopeless.

| Posted by Yminale

"Are you kidding me? I love how our people will be tried for war crimes, but no one at Gitmo will be?" Well that's because most of the detainees had nothing to do with the Taliban, Al Queda and 9/11. Of the 800 that were in Gitmo, over 500 have been released (most of them hating America). "They will get rights provided to our citizens when they are not citizens themselves?" Those rights are universal. All humans have them and all states (especially those that signed the UN convention on human rights) have to recognize those rights. "'But, really, there's hardly a war without war crimes.' Now what judiciary would accept that chickenshit rationalization?" The proper term is Crimes against Humanity and technically you don't need to have a war commit a CAH. As for what judicary, All the western ones except the US it seems.

| Posted by Nari224

What I find curious in the detractor's comments above is a complete absence of defending the administration on the basis of the facts. You know, something along the lines of "no they didn't" There's a bunch of macho chest pounding about how we're the US and so no-one will touch us, an attempt to distract from the issue at hand, and even an underhanded swipe at Obama "even President Obama...". Oh, I get it, even weak-kneed, snivelling, Europhile President Obama wouldn't do that! Gotcha! I mean seriously, it sounds like you' can't actually argue with the main premise and instead have to obfuscate. Not the strongest position I've gotta say...

| Posted by linda

fwiw, went to hear sy hersh a couple of weeks ago, and the question was asked about war crimes charges. hersh said there has already been planning for how to 'extract' (his word) any u.s. official taken into custody for their complicity in these crimes.

| Posted by Eric Bergerud

The author is almost certainly correct in his premise and thus explains why major countries that saw a real war in their future (like the US, Russia, China, India, Israel) would not sign or ratify the ICC. The result of a future arrest will be a political debacle of course with the world given an abject lesson on the difference between the US and Serbia. But don't expect sanity to restrain "international justice." One Spanish judge did immense damage to the concept of amnesty, the precise concept required to end civil conflicts and bring the peaceful end of oppressive regimes. If one judge is willing to do that, another will be willing to end NATO.

| Posted by koine

The idea of prosecuting these officials may be fantasy, but the idea of invading a European nation to rescue him is even moreso. I believe that anyone mentioned in the article but President Bush would be arreted traveling to the continent, and perhaps he would, too. The idea of a US attack would only be a stronger goad to doing it.

| Posted by JWL2672

#12 Untrue. If France scooped you up, tortured you, and you were subsequently freed, you'd come back to the US and piece together your life and return to normalcy. I'm assuming you're the typical westerner. Sure, you may hold a grudge and hate France. Rightfully so. But I don't see you blowing up the Eiffel tower. This myth about creating terrorism is horseshit. These animals are pre-disposed to hating us already. Giving them reason #26 of their Top #100 reasons is not going to affect anything. Last I checked, the Pan Am flight 103 blown up over Lockerbie was done in 1988. And Bush wasn't president back then.

| Posted by Krashkopf

"Impeach. Prosecute. Save America." - Naomi Wolf I agree. Krashkopf

| Posted by

"You wanna talk about freaking war crimes? How about the SOBs that murdered 3800 Americans going to work? " This has exactly zero to do with Iraq and nothing to do with us following the law and the Constitution. I not only don't care if these suspects or thier nations follow the law, it is not in any way relevant. The only thing that *is* relevant is that following the law, with NO ONE above it is what differentiates us from the rest of history and what we are fighting for. And I say this as someone who almost lost her husband in those 3000 people. No one "owns" 9/11. Americans responded with hysteria and sloppiness, which has only made us weak. What torturer throughout history has not felt perfectly entitled to torture? As if we are so different? Israel can try Eichman using due process of law, but we turn in to mindless savages at nothing compared to what Jews went through? Yes: nothing in comparison. Mindless savages who ignore all military experts who scoff at the notion that torture does anything at all but defile us as a nation. Does actual evidence that something works matter anymore or only fullfilling revenge fantasies on handcuffed *suspects*? This is cowardly, illegal and (worst) demonstrably ineffective. Sadly, I don't think anyone in the EU could actually throw one of the Torture Toads (Bush, Cheney, Rummy, et all) in jail, but I'm quite pleased they will be harrassed for the rest of their lives. They more than have it coming.

| Posted by Nathan S Lord

When will the group, movement, gang, "nation", whatever you call the swine who hate us, SURRENDER? Then, only then, will the war be over. Then, not before, is when prisoners can leave. Prisoners who were captured not in uniform are lucky they remain alive. How ironic it is that scaring the hell out of Islamists is a war crime, but that Sharia law used in time of war or conflict is not. Since Iran has waged war against people like the Bahais, Israel, and others elementary notions of justice tell me the governing mullahs and their agents should be shot and their remains fed to hogs.

| Posted by Paul B

"I don't quite fully understand the overreliance on legalese in warfare. International law is, at best, theoretical due to there being no enforcement mechanisms." It follows then that Bush could commit an act of genocide without ever having to face an international tribunal. Maybe that's true - but it's also true that his lies a responsible for the murder of over 4,000 troops and that former Manson prosecuter Vincent Bugliosi has published a book detailing how pretty much any DA can charge him when he leaves office. He better make sure he stays away from the Blue states after January 2009.

| Posted by David G.

Nancy Pelosi didn't have the guts to put Bush and Cheney on trial as part of impeachment proceedings, so what makes anyone think that another country would wish to expend their political capital on our behalf.

| Posted by Fracuss

You have been watching too many Rambo movies.

| Posted by Fracuss

Yes, I would like to see it too. I can't come too soon.

| Posted by Peter Burgess

These men are responsible for systematic TORTURE and anyone who supports that has lost the right to call themselves American.

| Posted by Graham

Ooooooooooh! I'm sure they're shaking in their boots.

| Posted by Sancho

In addition to everything else, how the hell is Addington guilty of war crimes. He had no authority whatsoever for anything (being a deputy of the VP, who himself has no authority for anything). So, is it a war crime to make arguments in favor of action that you have no authority to compel? Absurd.

| Posted by jwink

I guess people get real selective about their facts on this issue. We tend to forget how this arose in the first place. Congress passed a law banning torture, but in their typical incompetence, never bothered to define what torture was. The DOD then tried to define torture, and consulted the Administration's lawyers accordingly. All this time, the people trying to work with this policy had nothing go on. While the debate went on, the Democrats just winked and nodded and went along. To this day, they refuse to pass any legislation banning any techniques that are the subject of this article. Meanwhile, Captain Ahab, (ehr, I mean Senator Levin) holds hearings in which law professors & other elites declare their own definition of torture, condemn the Administration for violating the illegitimate standard, and discuss ex-post facto application of their non-standard in some other jurisdiction. This bizarro world of the law is amusing, but tiresome. I guess if we must have cowards during a war, it is better to have them on Capitol Hill than on the battlefield. They can do considerable less damage.

| Posted by TDA2001

I agree with JWL2672. While its politically popular and cute to try to indict US Officials for enforcing UN imposed resolutions, there are plenty of serious crimes happening all over the world that would be more beneficial to pursue. Of course arresting a terrorist or murdering dictator isn't as fun as going after the US. Pathetic.

| Posted by dvcastle

Writers and many readers of the New Republic are convinced that most Americans share their convictions. This assumption allows them to fantasize how another nation could get away with taking action against our leaders or soldiers and not have catastrophic political (at least) ramifications here in the US. Americans are unimpressed by the sanctimony of the corrupt UN, the ICC, the EU or any foreign nation. The only thing that will get Republicans back in the majority faster than such a stunt as the author describes would be another successful attack by the terrorists.

| Posted by Buster Bunns

If anything was ever designed to start pushing the US back into isolationism, then the first arrest of a US politician for war crimes should do it. The Bushies certainly have a case to answer for, but their alleged crimes must be tried here in the US, not in an international court. Who the hell do these Euro elites think they are? Who voted to give them that responsibility?

| Posted by John

I suspect that the Secret Service detail is larger than most of Europe's Armies!

| Posted by one of the few

Anti-war and Bush protestors wow; look at what America has come too? Ignorant and self acclaimed truth seekers, who might I add, look at a one sided story. You liberals just never will understand the sacrifices this country gave to you. How many of you have been to third world countries, where you cant even shower with the water that come out of the faucet, because it can cause sickness. While you sit there and complain about your country's leader telling the world he doesn't do a good job. Hoping they put him on trial for war crimes. Crimes for what; for going into a country to killing a monster of a man, who's country hated him to begin with. Or was it for chasseing down a tyrant that was responsible for the second largest foreign attack in U.S. History. Cause if those action alone I don't think you have much of a chance to win. As a student and Masters in Military Science, an AA degree in Sociology, and a Bachelors in Political Science. As for the war in Iraq we chose to tell them to fight us there rather than over here. As for the torture; are you kidding me, America is great for a great reason, only now we have issues with torture. No one wanted to say anything 20-years ago. Why, because America had an understanding that The U.S. Military (the greatest military on earth) did what it had to do to win a war. I happen to be a Pro-Military person the stronger the military the stronger the country. If we have to go to war every 10-years then so be it as long as we stay on the top of the food chain who am I to complain.

| Posted by one of the few

Anti-war and Bush protestors wow; look at what America has come too? Ignorant and self acclaimed truth seekers, who might I add, look at a one sided story. You liberals just never will understand the sacrifices this country gave to you. How many of you have been to third world countries, where you cant even shower with the water that come out of the faucet, because it can cause sickness. While you sit there and complain about your country's leader telling the world he doesn't do a good job. Hoping they put him on trial for war crimes. Crimes for what; for going into a country to killing a monster of a man, who's country hated him to begin with. Or was it for chasseing down a tyrant that was responsible for the second largest foreign attack in U.S. History. Cause if those action alone I don't think you have much of a chance to win. As a student and Masters in Military Science, an AA degree in Sociology, and a Bachelors in Political Science. As for the war in Iraq we chose to tell them to fight us there rather than over here. As for the torture; are you kidding me, America is great for a great reason, only now we have issues with torture. No one wanted to say anything 20-years ago. Why, because America had an understanding that The U.S. Military (the greatest military on earth) did what it had to do to win a war. I happen to be a Pro-Military person the stronger the military the stronger the country. If we have to go to war every 10-years then so be it as long as we stay on the top of the food chain who am I to complain.

| Posted by one of the few

Anti-war and Bush protestors wow; look at what America has come too? Ignorant and self acclaimed truth seekers, who might I add, look at a one sided story. You liberals just never will understand the sacrifices this country gave to you. How many of you have been to third world countries, where you cant even shower with the water that come out of the faucet, because it can cause sickness. While you sit there and complain about your country's leader telling the world he doesn't do a good job. Hoping they put him on trial for war crimes. Crimes for what; for going into a country to killing a monster of a man, who's country hated him to begin with. Or was it for chasseing down a tyrant that was responsible for the second largest foreign attack in U.S. History. Cause if those action alone I don't think you have much of a chance to win. As a student and Masters in Military Science, an AA degree in Sociology, and a Bachelors in Political Science. As for the war in Iraq we chose to tell them to fight us there rather than over here. As for the torture; are you kidding me, America is great for a great reason, only now we have issues with torture. No one wanted to say anything 20-years ago. Why, because America had an understanding that The U.S. Military (the greatest military on earth) did what it had to do to win a war. I happen to be a Pro-Military person the stronger the military the stronger the country. If we have to go to war every 10-years then so be it as long as we stay on the top of the food chain who am I to complain.

| Posted by Sir Topham Hat

Send Bush and Cheney to Vermont and have them ex-communicated.

| Posted by Jim Ray

Would a reward posted with the indictment such as free gas for life for info leading to the arrest of subjects be appropriate? Just wondering. jr

| Posted by Lyle

If they did nothing wrong, surely they won't fear standing trial, right?

| Posted by Everett

Hey Bart, maybe Hannibal and the A-Team could come save their sorry asses.

| Posted by breakspear

Perhaps not Bush or Cheney or maybe Rumsfeld, but if anyone deserves to be prosecuted for war crimes it's one failed human being, David Addington. yes, he is the cause of many sorrows and clearly guilty (and as an American I'll brand him guilty sight unseen). no American should have any use for this wretched human being who thinks he knows what's best when it comes to tarnishing America's reputation worldwide. well, he's done a smashing good job of that, haven't you, Davy ol' fat boy!!! If there's one person I, as an American, would like to see seized in a foreign locale and tried as the true war villain he is, it's this sack of excrement. i have no use for him and i hereby discard him to the fate he deserves: oblivion.

| Posted by Everett

Ah yes, the hallowed Someone-Else-Did-Something-Worse-Than-[Insert Name of Alleged Criminal]-So-Logically-[Insert Name of Alleged Criminal]-Is-Not-Guilty defense. This is almost as effective as the I'm Rubber and Your Glue Stratagem.

| Posted by jrw

Wow, the internet tough guys are out in force here. "Your ass is mine"? Sounds like Bush administration warrior-speak at its best, spoken in comfort from behind the keyboard. I'm sure lots of bad guys are trembling in their shoes.

| Posted by awm

Anyone who thinks the Europeans won't pursue this needs to spend some time in Europe. They will be adhere strictly to rule of law, and they will be scrupulously fair. One thing they won't do is pay any attention to the US domestic sentiment expressed in these comments; and if anyone should hold out hope for a political intervention, there isn't a single politician in Europe with the political capital required to survive interfering in such a case. To those commenters still longing for a 19th century imperialist state, just consider that America recognises Universal Jurisdiction for war-crimes, and so this would not constitute casus belli; and should America threaten a military response, the response itself would constitute an attack on the entire EU. Everyone knows this, everyone knows everyone knows this, and consequently any posturing by America would be pure hubris --- in other words, you're full of it. In conclusion, yes Italy would imprison a US war criminal; and when you consider their historical cultural memory of torture and war-crimes, you had better believe that Poland, Belgium, Netherlands, or Germany would. If I was a member or ex-member of the current administration I would be planning on remaining within US controlled territory for the rest of my life.

| Posted by Steve Curry

I realize that holding the political leadership to account is a sticky business, but as an American who does believe in our stated ideals ie rule of law, justice for all(weather we like the result or not...) I feel that if there are to be prosecutions for these acts then we as a nation need to be the ones to do it. This group has much to answer for from shredding our constitution, invasion and suspension of our civil liberties, the diminishment of our national standing, and generally making the world a more dangerous and threatening place for Americans, we the nation are owed explanations and we should be the ones demanding an account. Conveience be damned.

| Posted by Steve Curry

I realize that holding the political leadership to account is a sticky business, but as an American who does believe in our stated ideals ie rule of law, justice for all(weather we like the result or not...) I feel that if there are to be prosecutions for these acts then we as a nation need to be the ones to do it. This group has much to answer for from shredding our constitution, invasion and suspension of our civil liberties, the diminishment of our national standing, and generally making the world a more dangerous and threatening place for Americans, we the nation are owed explanations and we should be the ones demanding an account. Conveience be damned.

| Posted by roger Haskett

So the comments seem to break down into two distinct camps: the first argues that Bush and company did in fact take part in war crimes and should be held accountable (for which there is ample evidence). The second camp seems to be arguing that the US is big and tough and should never be held accountable by small unimportant countries and/or that because terrorists (not connected to Iraq) attacked on 9/11, whatever the Bush administration did after that is acceptable and unremarkable. There is something wrong with one of these camps. I wonder which one? It's sooo hard to figure out... wait, give me another 8 years or so to see if I can tell... these moral dilemmas! they are so tricky!

| Posted by roger

"Warfare and its attendant violence are morally neutral"???? wow! morally neutral? Really? The only thing that is morally neutral here is you. "the very kind of enemy who makes it difficult to fight a "good" or "clean" war" What war is that? a Clean war? "I don't quite fully understand the overreliance on legalese in warfare." Well judging from your argument you don't understand much about war at all.

| Posted by Mike

The Left sure is eager to declare war on our own citizens. Shame they don't feel the same about pursuing, incarcerating and killing terrorists. But hey, arresting Republicans will no doubt bring us all together as one big happy family and help an Obama presidency get things done...

| Posted by dvcastle

Most people who want to see the President indicted for war crimes are the same ones who were against the Iraq war in the first place. Why aren't they also calling for former President Clinton to be indicted for ordering the bombing of an Aspirin factory in Africa?

| Posted by dh

Nari224 - Re #16, almost left it lie, but just couldn't pass up a quick response. First, I "can't actually argue with the main premise"? Maybe you should re-read the article. That high-level Bush admin officials will be jailed by foreign countries IS the premise, and yes, that premise is stupid on its face. Whether they are actually guilty is not being discussed here. Second, I only meant "President Obama who was completely against W's policies". The "weak-kneed, snivelling, Europhile President Obama" came from you. Finally, the chest thumping you heard was me trying to restart my heart after I laughed so hard that it stopped beating. Later.

| Posted by truthynesslover

Shouldnt even the worst of the worst have a right to defend themselves? Have we really sunk so low as to believe only americans have the right to fairness and justice?Why not just take all captives out and shoot them?Do people really think they can detain prisoners forever till they die?The idiocy of this administation is that evidence given under torture will not be admisible in any court.

| Posted by marecek

get a grip wrote: "Are you kidding me? I love how our people will be tried for war crimes, but no one at Gitmo will be? They will get rights provided to our citizens when they are not citizens themselves? It was proven when some detainees were released that they turned around and went about their business of plotting against us. You guys are sick and may God have mercy on your souls for turning against our country." Your name is apt, as you really do need to get a grip. Your post is nothing more than skewed gibberish. If people at Guantanamo are not charged for war crimes it is not because the Supreme Court prevented it, it is because the Bush administration has steadfastly refused to provide legitimate procedures by which to have such trials. Nobody has resisted the idea that people at Guantanamo be charged with war crimes, only that they not be tried before a kangaroo court. I don't understand your perspective that our citizens should get better treatment than non-citizens when it concerns war crimes or permanent detention - everybody in the world is prohibited to commit war crimes, regardless of citizenship and liberty from arbitrary detention is, next to the right to life, perhaps the most basic human right, ranking up their with human dignity, human treatment and freedom from torture. One's citizenship should NEVER has any relevance as to whether persons are afforded basic human rights. For the love of God, are we a totalitarian dictatorship? Is Guantanamo a gulag? I should hope not, but you want to have it both ways - all the features of a gulag, all the while pretending that we are behaving like a beacon of freedom to the world. It's completely deranged. With regard to released detainees turning around and engaging in more harmful conduct, I hate to be so picky, but neither you nor anybody else I have seen making this claim has EVER presented even a smidgeon of evidence to back that up. Perhaps you have learned to well from the Bush administration - when it comes to claims of terrorism, you live in fantasyland, where wanting something to be so, or believing it is so, makes it so. Pardon us who still live in the reality-based community, but we still consider some empirical proof necessary before facts are deemed established. As for your last comment, I expect you can gather from what I have written above that I consider you sick. And leave God out of this!

| Posted by marecek

To one of the few, I certainly hope that you are. You have done an astonishing job of stringing together one bit of incoherent gibberish after another. Your post amounts to little more than an attempt (admittedly entirely feeble) to intimidate by essentially saying - "Hey, we are the US of f-cking A and we can do whatever the hell we want, so don't get in our way or you know what will happen to you." I really would wish to project our national identity around the world by some better means than bullying threats. Oh and by the way, I suppose you were trying to impress us with your academic degrees, but in view of the very poor quality of your writing and arguments, it only caused me to wonder what sort of poor quality institution would have awarded you such degrees. In any case, they really don't add anything to your argument so you can just leave them out next time.

| Posted by

impeach, investigate, imprison.

| Posted by William Ainsworth

I thought you had to loose a war to be tried as a war criminal. Who ordered this?

| Posted by Bill

@JWL2672 (Comment 20). Please refrain from calling people animals. You betray your genocidal predisposition.

| Posted by Holdfast

Guess what - most Americans don't care, and chasing ex-Officials for maybe having some Jihadi detainees roughed up is a political loser. Personally, if some Jihad Johnny had to stand in a "stress position" or be yelled at or slapped on the belly (some of the alledged "torture" techniques) to prevent another 9/11, then so be it. These animals cut off people's heads with rusty knives on TV - ordinary Americans aren't going to worry about their discomfort. Most people probably already assumed we did this stuff - the only failure was the failure to keep it hidden, which is probably a comment the basic goodness of most Americans, but is no way to win a dirty war. And yes it is a dirty war - not because we want it that way, but because that's the way it is.

| Posted by a foreigner

One thing is really a novelty in the US government embrace of torture under Bush & friends: they want to make it legal, to write it into the law. They want to be torturers with a clear conscience, at least in legal terms. Down here in Central and South America, our military thugs of the late 20th century tortured and killed thousands (with US help, assistance and instruction, it begs to be remembered). But they knew it was a breach of law and basic human decency. They tought it was necessary, a dirty job that had to be done. But they assumed false names and set up shadow military units to do it, outside the legal codes and justice apparatus. They knew they were breaking any law worth its name. They just didn't care. Bush and his lawyers, instead, want to do it legally. They try to distort and mangle the law to make it allow torture and kangaroo courts. This is the last American contribution to western civilization: torture codified and "legalized". Augusto Pinochet, a murderer and an American puppet in the Cold War, spent his last years fleeing global justice. Bush and his people deserve the same.

| Posted by DWPittelli

And how many Egyptians are the Italians going to try in absentia? Or is it really the case that sending someone to Egypt is a crime because Egypt is a torturer nation, but that the torture itself is not?

| Posted by DWPittelli

And how many Egyptians are the Italians going to try in absentia? Or is it really the case that sending someone to Egypt is a crime because Egypt is a torturer nation, but that the torture itself is not?

| Posted by Van Hook Stratton

wow! morally neutral? Really? The only thing that is morally neutral here is you. ---->That stings. It really does. Please stop. What war is that? a Clean war? Well judging from your argument you don't understand much about war at all. ---->The quotes around "good" and "clean" are meant to imply that the terms don't actually apply. It's all a dirty business. I'm sorry. If I'm going too fast I'll slow down in deference to you but this is TNR, not People.

| Posted by Van Hook Stratton

It follows then that Bush could commit an act of genocide without ever having to face an international tribunal. ----->Well, incidentally, yes, it does follow but since neither Bush nor any other American president has been or will be guilty of that charge it doesn't make any sense to contemplate this hypothetical. A genocide in Iraq would take about a week, tops, and it really wouldn't be a judgment call. It would be obvious. We wouldn't need a piece of politicized hackwork from The Lancet around the time of every US election [funny how that just happens...] saying how Bush has personally drunk the blood of 14,351,153 Iraqi children since the beginning of the war- any idiot with a camera could point to an Iraqi population center of any size and see the masses of the dead. Maybe that's true - but it's also true that his lies a responsible for the murder of over 4,000 troops ---->Those soldiers weren't murdered. They were killed in a war by terror...wait, sorry, insurgen, no, sorry...ummmm- freedom fighters! What life circumstances produce people like you? How could you be so morally inverse where you don't blame the people actually doing the killing, but the President of the country for which they're fighting. Bush never told a lie and he was right about Iraq- the WMD issue aside. Sorry, all the sound and fury has died down and your constant drumbeat and echo chamber tactics can't distract from these facts. and that former Manson prosecuter Vincent Bugliosi has published a book detailing how pretty much any DA can charge him when he leaves office. He better make sure he stays away from the Blue states after January 2009. ----->If Bugliosi's position is as you state than he is a moron. Bush will go wherever the hell he likes in this country and abroad and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

| Posted by Carl

Based on your writing, if you really have completed this impressive college track , I'd suggest asking for a tuition refund.

June 29, 2008

WAR CRIMES DOSSIER: another Iraqi massacre!



IRAQI CIVILIANS MASSACRED BY AMERICAN SOLDIERS NEAR BAIJI


Family Members and Friends Killed as They Waited for Relative's Release

Iraqwar.ru

June 27, 2008

On May 20, 2008 in the village of Al Mazraa, near Baiji, Salahuddin Province, Iraq-

Eight relatives and a neighbor on their way to a homecoming party for a detainee released from Camp Bucca were shot and killed by American soldiers as they waited on the road outside the neighborhood. American soldiers were conducting raids in the area, so neighbors had advised the family to stay away from the area until the patrol was over.

As the two car convoy was waiting nearby, an American helicopter nearby opened fire on the vehicles. As the vehicles were hit, the drivers attempted to seek cover, but both vehicles were repeatedly shot and disabled. The helicopter landed but instead of assisting those shot and needing medical help, the American soldiers killed any survivors and then wrote numbers on the foreheads of some. Several children including a young girls body are clearly visible, and the wounds suffered by the men are horrific. The vehicle is clearly shot with many rounds and the seats and road is covered with blood. Iraqi police were called to the scene to remove the bodies, and some video footage was taken. It is clear that these people were unarmed civilians.

American troops did eventually enter the house where over 50 Iraqis were gathered for the homecoming party, and the soldiers proceeded to destroy furniture and belongings as they conducted their search. No one in the house was harmed.

The names of those killed:

Sabah Rasheed Matrood
Saab Rasheed Matrood
Kamel Badr Daher
Ali Badr Daher
Udei Badr Daher
Fateh Haref Nouar
Abdul Rahman Kamel Badr

May they rest in Peace.

Meanwhile, contrast this LIEING SMIRKING CHIMP's PRESS STATEMENT for today!

Disgusting! Totally disgusting!
Screw the lamestream news!

Statement by the Press Secretary

29/June/2008

WASHINGTON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of California and ordered Federal aid to supplement State and local response efforts in the area struck by wildfires beginning on June 20, 2008, and continuing.

The President's action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures, authorized under Title V of the Stafford Act, to save lives and to protect property and public health and safety, and to lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe in the counties of Butte, Mendocino, Monterey, Santa Clara, Santa Cruz, Shasta, and Trinity.

Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. Emergency protective measures, limited to direct Federal assistance, will be provided at 75 percent Federal funding.

R. David Paulison, Administrator, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), Department of Homeland Security, named Michael J. Hall as the Federal Coordinating Officer for Federal recovery operations in the affected area.

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: FEMA (202) 646-4600.

Yeah, here is the new and horrible compassionate society!!

The George HW BuZh & BushCo

Compassionate society !!





April 08, 2008

Andrew Sullivan on coming war crimes charges!!

War Crime Charges for Bush Officials?



Media coverage of the disclosure of the "torture memo" authored by Bush Justice Department official John C. Yoo has been mostly a deafening silence. But on this morning's Chris Matthews' show, someone finally fired a shot. As we mentioned in this morning's liveblog, credit goes to The Atlantic's Andrew Sullivan, for taking the opportunity to ensure that this matter got out into the televised discourse somehow. SULLIVAN: The latest revelations on the torture front show the memo from John Yoo...means that Don Rumsfeld, David Addington and John Yoo should not leave the United States any time soon. They will be, at some point, indicted for war crimes.

The moment came during a segment on Matthews' show where the panel is invited to "tell him something he doesn't know," though this might be more accurately termed, "something he doesn't know he should talk about."

Every day, it becomes more difficult to blame George Bush, Dick Cheney and comrades for their seven years (and counting) of crimes, corruption and destruction of our political values. Think about it this way: if you were a high government official and watched as -- all in a couple of weeks time -- it is revealed, right out in the open, that you suspended the Fourth Amendment, authorized torture, proclaimed yourself empowered to break the law, and sent the nation's top law enforcement officer to lie blatantly about how and why the 9/11 attacks happened so that you could acquire still more unchecked spying power and get rid of lawsuits that would expose what you did, and the political press in this country basically ignored all of that and blathered on about Obama's bowling score and how he eats chocolate, wouldn't you also conclude that you could do anything you want, without limits, and know there will be no consequences? What would be the incentive to stop doing all of that?

March 17, 2008

Mark Yanonne on war crimes

Not in my name, Mr. Bush. These crimes are yours.

George W. Bush, 03/19/2003

by George W. Bush
Acting president of the US
03/19/2003


[Excerpts] "My fellow citizens, at this hour, American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger.

"We come to Iraq with respect for its citizens, for their great civilization and for the religious faiths they practice. We have no ambition in Iraq, except to remove a threat and restore control of that country to its own people.

"Our nation enters this conflict reluctantly--yet, our purpose is sure. The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder. We will meet that threat now, with our Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and Marines, so that we do not have to meet it later with armies of fire fighters and police and doctors on the streets of our cities.

"My fellow citizens, the dangers to our country and the world will be overcome. We will pass through this time of peril and carry on the work of peace. We will defend our freedom. We will bring freedom to others and we will prevail.

"May God bless our country and all who defend her." [Source]

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