Followup: Vets, PTSD and the RIGHT to bear arms!!

Veterans Disarmament Act to Bar Vets From Owning Guns

Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:49 pm (PST)

After seeing everything I have seen over the last 49 years of this short life. I now see an even bigger picture that just now has become even clearer to me. This is not about "PTSD" or an thing else other then total control of anyone who will pose a threat to the new government to be put into place in the next year. For those of you that feel this does not affect you. Please think again. It does. The government can place any persons name in the National Data Base for anything. Whether you were ever involved in that issue or not. Data bases are one of the easiest things to make in the Cybernet World. The government can either make you out to be a saint. Or another Saddam Husein, and there isn't anything you can do about it any more. The people of this land have allowed the new government to take total control of us all. Just remember. You fought for their war. And now your getting payed back. You are here today. But you could wake up one morning and not be alive or even existed as far as the government is concerned.
Posted by Kirk

Veterans Disarmament Act To Bar Vets From Owning Guns

Larry Pratt

Sunday September 23, 2007
Hundreds of thousands of veterans -- from Vietnam through Operation Iraqi Freedom -- are at risk of being banned from buying firearms if legislation that is pending in Congress gets enacted.

How?

The Veterans Disarmament Act -- which has already passed the House -- would place any veteran who has ever been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) on the federal gun ban list.
This is exactly what President Bill Clinton did over seven years ago when his administration illegitimately added some 83,000 veterans into the National Criminal Information System (NICS system) -- prohibiting them from purchasing firearms, simply because of afflictions like PTSD.
The proposed ban is actually broader. Anyone who is diagnosed as being a tiny danger to himself or others would have his gun rights taken away ... forever. It is section 102((1)©(iv) in HR 2640 that provides for dumping raw medical records into the system.

Those names -- like the 83,000 records mentioned above -- will then, by law, serve as the basis for gun banning.

No wonder the Military Order of the Purple Heart is opposed to this legislation. The House bill, HR 2640, is being sponsored by one of the most flaming anti-Second Amendment Representatives in Congress: Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY).

Another liberal anti-gunner, Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), is sponsoring the bill in the Senate.
Proponents of the bill say that helpful amendments have been made so that any veteran who gets his name on the NICS list can seek an expungement.

But whenever you talk about expunging names from the Brady NICS system, you're talking about a procedure that has always been a long shot. Right now, there are NO EXPUNGEMENTS of law-abiding Americans' names that are taking place under federal level.

Why? Because the expungement process which already exists has been blocked for over a decade by a "funds cut-off" engineered by another anti-gunner, Sen. Charles Schumer (D-NY).

So how will this bill make things even worse?

Well, two legal terms are radically redefined in the Veterans Disarmament Act to carry out this vicious attack on Veterans' gun rights.
One term relates to who is classified a "mental defective." Forty years ago that term meant one was adjudicated "not guilty" in a court of law by reason of insanity. But under the Veterans Disarmament Act, "mental defective" has been stretched to include anyone whom a psychiatrist determines might be a tiny danger to self or others.

The second term is "adjudicate. " In the past, one could only lose one's gun rights through an adjudication by a judge, magistrate or court -- meaning conviction after a trial. Adjudication could only occur in a court with all the protections of due process, including the right to face one's accuser.

Now, adjudication in HR 2640 would include a finding by "a court, commission, committee or other authorized person" (namely, a psychiatrist) .

Forget the fact that people with PTSD have the same violent crime rate as the rest of us. Vietnam vets with PTSD have had careers and obtained permits to carry firearms concealed.

It will now be enough for a psychiatric diagnosis (a "determination" in the language of the bill) to get a veteran barred ­for life ­ from owning guns.

Think of what this bill would do to veterans. If a robber grabs your wallet and takes everything in it, but gives you back $5 to take the bus home, would you call that a financial enhancement? If not, then we should not let HR 2640 supporters call the permission to seek an expungement an enhancement, when prior to this bill, veterans could not legitimately be denied their gun rights after being diagnosed with PTSD.

Veterans with PTSD should not be put in a position to seek an expungement. They have not been convicted (after a trial with due process) of doing anything wrong.

If a veteran is thought to be a threat to self or others, there should be a real trial, not an opinion (called a diagnosis) by a psychiatrist.
If members of Congress do not hear from soldiers (active duty and retired) in large numbers, along with the rest of the public, the Veterans Disarmament Act -- misleadingly titled by Rep. McCarthy as the NICS Improvement Amendments Act -- will send this message to veterans: "No good deed goes unpunished"

If members of Congress do not hear from soldiers (active duty and retired) in large numbers, along with the rest of the public, the Veterans Disarmament Act -- misleadingly titled by Rep. McCarthy as the NICS Improvement Amendments Act -- will send this message to veterans: "No good deed goes unpunished."

NOTE: It’s passed Congress and is moving on to the Senate…….my opinion is that it’s not about vets with PTSD – it’s about veterans who are warriors and know how to fight in wars…trained by the USA – well, Baby Bush and his buddies who have pulled a lot of rotten deals since day 1 – want to make darn sure these vets are not able to come back at them when everyone does finally realize that so many of our freedoms have already been taken from us – and there will be more. These vets are a threat. If we are to ever stand up like the true patriots so many of us claim to be and take our country back and give back what was stolen from the Constitution – these vets are a threat. Arm yourselves – everyone – because like it or not, I hate to say this and I hope I am totally wrong, but a revolution will happen, because when we hit solid rock bottom while the rich have become so rich they could never spend it all – we will have to fight for our country and for our rights and freedoms.

This man – I won’t call him President, because we know he stole the election - denies little children desperately needed medical coverage – denies people decent housing, food, medical care and so forth – but he wants to take guns away from the very vets who he has claimed are dying for our freedoms? Who have died – a river of blood through many wars and conflicts – and this is how they are treated? Judged without the due process? We must do whatever we can to fight this bill.

More:

Vets with PTSD should not be put in a position to seek an expungement. They have not been convicted (after a trial with DUE process) of doing anything wrong.

Haven't they been through enough already? Many of our Vietnam Vets have fought for years to get help from VA (and are STILL fighting for them). Then to have the mere fact they sought help come back to slap them in the face is further insult to injury!

What stats are Congress basing this bill on? This is a veiled attempt to take away the arms of all Americans and defy our 2nd Amendment rights. Unless a Veteran is a prisoner, he still has his Second Amendment rights! If a veteran is thought to be a threat to self or others, there should be a "real" trial, not an opinion (called a diagnosis) by a psychiatrist.

Not to mention how this will PREVENT our troops returning from theatre from getting help if they are having problems. Can you imagine how ANGRY they will be? (And who wouldn't be? We were when we read this! Not to mention how emotional we felt about it too.)

I have a brother with PTSD. He hunts and subsidizes his family with meat because his income has been limited by his VOLUNTARY service, which affected him! What a slap in the face to him and others who were affected by what they encountered while serving all of us. I've never felt he would harm anyone, not ever. We've known a lot of Vietnam Vets with PTSD who we've never felt were a threat to society. Remember the number of Vets we are dealing with. So the stats just aren't there to warrant this!
Not everybody who went to Nam was affected the same way. But we know that some were and we care about them. (Unless you're in Congress evidently!) But this is the most disgusting thing we've ever heard of.
Lets see, you've been changed forever for serving your country, now Congress is going to PUNISH you further? Now that's a big THANK YOU FOR SERVING and that's logic for you...

The troops serving today are so amazing. Doing several tours of duty. We appreciate them so much. So a slap in the face like this is really going to help! Talk about pulling a bandaide off a wound! A HUGE slap in the face when these brave troops have had to fight for every thing they get. We have always needed to encourage troops to go in for counseling if they had a problem. Imagine if they were law enforcement? You're telling them they can never do the job they did before they left to serve our country? Nice job congress!

We've been dealing with Vietnam Vets for how many years? And there is NO HUGE stats for shooting incidents!

So why in the world would you do something like this to our troops?
It's a veiled attempt to take away our Second Amendment rights.. starting with the brave men and women who have been protecting THEIR sorry *sses!

When I called Sen's Boxer's and Feinsteins offices today, they said "yes, it has already passed in the House, and it's coming up for a vote in the Senate".

I told them that there are two Vets in this house. We've never been sorry to have served. One of us is 100 percent disabled, and the other 50% from a helicopter crash in Nam as a medivac pilot. My brother, who has PTSD, has never been sorry to have served, and he also volunteered.

But my brother never came back from Nam. In all these years, the young man who left, never returned. But no one fears him either. And now they want to PUNISH HIM?

This is INSANE!

I asked that they PLEASE advocate for our troops. The troops from before and now too. To do less is a horrible joke.

I even looked up the email I got on Snopes.com. Thinking it had to be a hoax. Surely they couldn't or wouldn't do MORE HARM to the troops who've served and are serving our country so well.

But, it's true.. it's all true.

I admit, during my conversation with both offices, I broke down near the end with each office. This IS EMOTIONAL. How can we allow this to happen to our Vets?

This is just too much for me to imagine. My brother having his rifle taken away. No more Elk or deer to feed his family. No more wild Turkey's to eat. After 30 some years?

What dignity he has left will be shattered. That young man who joined to fight for a country he loved so much.

It shames me to no end to imagine that his country would "continue" to do him harm. (His fight for benefits has been unreal.)

Please call your Senators. Please tell them to prevent this travesty from happening to our troops who've served. They deserve BETTER than this!
God forbid we treat them like common criminals by denying them this RIGHT afforded them by our Constitution!

It took me all of 5 minutes to make these two calls.

Please help to stop this travesty being visited on our nations hero's.
We owe it to them! PLEASE HELP OUR VETS!!!

Contact your State Senator and tell them to vote NO on this bill! You will be calling about the following:
~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~
The Veterans Disarmament Act
HR 2640, section 102 (1)©(iv)

Little RedHawk
Cherokee Warrior